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lesley

9 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2009 :  07:48:09  Show Profile  Visit lesley's Homepage
Hi everyone,

For our senior design project, my team is designing, testing, and fabricating a land-based utility human powered vehicle for the 2010 American Society of Mechanical Engineers' Human Powered Vehicle Challenge. The vehicle has to be practical for everyday use in a city/campus environment.

Solely for the utility branch of the competition, the vehicles are allowed to incorporate an energy storage device for propulsion aid as long as the energy comes entirely from the human. Also the storage device has to be capable of being drained easily so it can be proven as empty when the competition starts. Therefore, if we use a generator and a battery to power a motor, the battery has to be capable of draining and recharging many times. We are looking into that option as well as a flywheel, but weight is a major concern of the project too. We have made required power calculations for the best and worst conditions, and are now trying to weigh out the feasibility of the two options like if the extra weight is worth the benefits while climbing with a full load. Do you have any advice on this or know of anything similar to refer us to or someone we could talk to about this? Also, does anyone have any lightweight and easily drained/recharged battery suggestions?

I am aware that many people have tried similar ideas and am hoping to learn from their experiences, but have not been able to find good sources. I saw the other topic, "Redesigning the bike", and its responses including the link Warren posted, but my team wants to incorporate a generator, battery, and motor system that serves as assistance for the rider when desired, but not as a main means of propulsion. Therefore, I do not believe this is exactly the same as the section on Warren's posting, but it is similar.

Also, my team still is in great need of sponsorship (small and large) in the means of monetary and parts (new or used) donations, so if you can help or know anyone interested, it would be greatly appreciated. The donations go through our university and are tax-deductible. You can find out more at www.teamrecumbent.com/sponsorship


I know this posting is long. Thank you for your time!

Edited by - lesley on 06/04/2009 08:11:35

Charlie Ollinger

USA
5 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2009 :  14:24:42  Show Profile
The nicest electirc drive I have heard of is by Matt Shumaker, check it out: http://www.recumbents.com/home.asp?URL=wisil/whatsup.htm#Recumbent%20Bike%20and%20HPV%20Building%20Projects go to "electric recumbents" and find Matt Shumakers page.

For your application you might think about a big capacitor, rather than a battery. I can't help you with designing a capacitor system, but there are people doing this

Charlie
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lesley

9 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2009 :  20:46:33  Show Profile  Visit lesley's Homepage
Thank you for the input, Charlie! There is a lot of good information on that website. We will keep the capacitor in mind.

Lesley
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habib

1 Posts

Posted - 09/02/2009 :  03:35:41  Show Profile
how do you mean ? I mean everything technically is Energy, as mass is energy in another form. So energy can be sotred as mass i guess is the big one . o0

If this is some kind of "secretly get people to do your homework" thread (which it would seem to be) then i guess you should ask in the homework forum. I dunno the guidelines or owt like that for rules of asking homework help, but its not very useful if you just copy answers that somebody else has told you!





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gandaria700

Bangladesh
4 Posts

Posted - 09/02/2009 :  11:54:04  Show Profile
Northwest Energy Storage, the master distributor of world class Solar-One® batteries welcomes you to the Solar-One web site. Here you will find valuable information on this high-performance battery designed specifically for Renewable Energy.




hi to all
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lesley

9 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2009 :  20:29:16  Show Profile  Visit lesley's Homepage
Habib,

I have no desire to copy anyone's answers. I am just looking to acquire as much information as possible from as many sources as possible as one should when dealing with such a matter. Then I will formulate my own answer. It's a waste of time to keep repeating the mistakes of others because you did not adequately research what has already been carried out. The IHPVA forum is a site with great potential to help us learn more on the topic. My group has been researching this topic for about a year now off and on when possible, so we are not in the slightest asking this to "secretly get people to do [our] homework". There is just only so much we have been taught regarding electronics, so little time to research, and only limited amount of specific information you can find. For every person/source that tells you one thing you can rest assured there a multiple that will tell you the opposite. If you were to re-read the posting, you would see that it implies that we have put much thought into the subject already in the forms of research and calculations. Thank you
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lesley

9 Posts

Posted - 09/07/2009 :  20:31:43  Show Profile  Visit lesley's Homepage
Gandaria700,

Thank you for your suggestion!

Lesley
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tentenforum

Philippines
1 Posts

Posted - 09/22/2009 :  22:24:03  Show Profile  Visit tentenforum's Homepage
wait, i am kinda confuse, on what kind of energy you are referring?
Chemical energy or Solar Energy?




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kunio2012

1 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2009 :  17:43:46  Show Profile  Visit kunio2012's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by tentenforum

wait, i am kinda confuse, on what kind of energy you are referring?
Chemical energy or Solar Energy?





She already mentioned the power source for the battery.
It's a human-powered vehicle.
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SeanCostin

USA
32 Posts

Posted - 09/30/2009 :  20:16:59  Show Profile
Lesley,
I was wondering about using compressed air for energy storage. I noticed that Liter bottles can hold a serious amount of pressure. If you had enough of them tied together it might be an effective and lightweight energy storage device.

Just a crazy thought.

Sean Costin
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PeterGa

1 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2009 :  16:41:05  Show Profile  Visit PeterGa's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by tentenforum

wait, i am kinda confuse, on what kind of energy you are referring?
Chemical energy or Solar Energy?







Yes I also want to know what kind of energy you referring. And compressed air is not a good idea I think.
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Don S

USA
81 Posts

Posted - 10/19/2009 :  19:43:01  Show Profile
quote:
I also want to know what kind of energy you referring


Fundamentally, there are two sources of power available for hpv propulsion. Obviously, the vehicle can not use solar or wind energy or stored chemical/mechanical energy as the storage device must be reset to zero at the start of the event. That leaves primarily the human power element and momentum but it takes more power to accelerate or gain elevation than can be recovered and the weight of an energy storage device increases the energy required to develope potential energy that could be stored.

Few storage systems could be lighter than a system to store compressed air and the motor to utilize that power would already be on board. There is also a ready made heat producing unit on board.

The human body isn't very efficient as a high percentage of it's energy production is in the form of heat so another idea might be to store that heat and/or convert it back into energy. If a vehicle could take advantage of it's momentum and cool the rider while converting that heat or momentum into a power source than storage of what is otherwise wasted energy might have potential.

Don
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ksnetsolution

India
1 Posts

Posted - 10/21/2009 :  09:56:27  Show Profile
Thanks for giving me a useful URL lot of good information on that URL
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mmray31

Philippines
1 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2009 :  22:36:18  Show Profile
Pocos sistemas de almacenamiento podría ser más ligero que un sistema para almacenar el aire comprimido y el motor a utilizar ese poder ya estaría a bordo. También hay un calor preparado unidad de producción a bordo.

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saddamkhan

Bangladesh
1 Posts

Posted - 11/26/2009 :  23:38:12  Show Profile
Thank you for the great discussion. I am glad to be member of this forum and come to know about great topic..
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masumbdk

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 12/01/2009 :  07:01:54  Show Profile
That leaves primarily the human power element and momentum but it takes more power to accelerate or gain elevation than can be recovered and the weight of an energy storage device increases the energy required to develope potential energy that could be stored.



masumbd khan
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gjazz35

United Kingdom
1 Posts

Posted - 12/09/2009 :  00:53:52  Show Profile
come si fa a dire? Voglio dire tutto ciò che è tecnicamente l'energia, la massa è energia in un'altra forma. Così l'energia può essere ordinato come i mass indovinare è quello grande. o0If questo è una sorta di "segreto convincere la gente a fare il vostro lavoro" thread (che sembrerebbe essere), allora credo che Lei debba chiedere nel forum dei compiti a casa. Non so gli orientamenti o OWT come quello per le regole di chiedere aiuto per i compiti, ma la sua non è molto utile se si copia solo le risposte che qualcun altro abbia detto!

www.ihpva.org
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HarryA

USA
15 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2009 :  12:55:55  Show Profile  Visit HarryA's Homepage
Pocos sistemas de almacenamiento podría ser más ligero que un sistema para almacenar el aire comprimido y el motor a utilizar ese poder ya estaría a bordo. También hay un calor preparado unidad de producción a bordo.

Google translate:
Few storage systems may be lighter than a system for storing compressed air and the engine to use that power would already be on board. There is also a ready heat production unit on board.

Harry \../
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marcus80

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 03/12/2010 :  10:28:52  Show Profile  Visit marcus80's Homepage
Charlie the url you posted => : http://www.recumbents.com/home.asp?URL=wisil/whatsup.htm#Recumbent%20Bike%20and%20HPV%20Building%20Projects
Is no longer woring. Do you maybe have the article for me ?
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countrymike

United Kingdom
26 Posts

Posted - 03/29/2010 :  11:14:56  Show Profile
I’m surprised that no one has made this point on a HPV forum, but the best source of power is human power. Anything other than chemical energy (....internal combustion) has proven wholly inadequate.
To make a competent utility HPV your consideration should be for; weigh distribution; neutral steering geometry; pedal effort isolated from suspension; suspension stiffness; weight reduction.....
But your biggest single most important is consideration is tyre selection. It is always the most fundamental factor to determine performance.

Also air compression works out as something like 40% efficiency for the compression; expansion, 40%; motor efficiency 40%; transmission 95%.
So you could be looking at 6% return for your efforts and a weight penalty the rest of the time.

Good luck with your project.
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n/a

5 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2010 :  06:02:58  Show Profile
Wow, a long thread going on, well, it will take alot of my time to read all the posts but I wish I have time to read them all. anyways it will be a great place to learn.

http://discountedzhuhamsterpets.com/1/zhu-zhu-pets

Edited by - n/a on 05/29/2010 02:21:19
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moore478

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 06/02/2010 :  14:25:37  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by lesley

Hi everyone,

Solely for the utility branch of the competition, the vehicles are allowed to incorporate an energy storage device for propulsion aid as long as the energy comes entirely from the human. Also the storage device has to be capable of being drained easily so it can be proven as empty when the competition starts. Therefore, if we use a generator and a battery to power a motor, the battery has to be capable of draining and recharging many times. We are looking into that option as well as a flywheel, but weight is a major concern of the project too. We have made required power calculations for the best and worst conditions, and are now trying to weigh out the feasibility of the two options like if the extra weight is worth the benefits while climbing with a full load. Do you have any advice on this or know of anything similar to refer us to or someone we could talk to about this? Also, does anyone have any lightweight and easily drained/recharged battery suggestions?

I am aware that many people have tried similar ideas and am hoping to learn from their experiences, but have not been able to find good sources. I saw the other topic, "Redesigning the bike", and its responses including the link Warren posted, but my team wants to incorporate a generator, battery, and motor system that serves as assistance for the rider when desired, but not as a main means of propulsion. Therefore, I do not believe this is exactly the same as the section on Warren's posting, but it is similar.




Hi Lesley,

There is no battery that is lightweight which can provide power to an engine for the bike. The adage is, more storage capacity, the heavier your battery is. My suggestion is to use a compressor. While the human is manually pedaling the bike, the pressure is added to a storage. You can make a device to push the gear by certain release of pressure from the storage. Hope you understand my point.

John
http://www.platedgoldroses.com
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andrew39

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2010 :  19:26:28  Show Profile
Cheap, utility scale energy storage is viewed as the holy grail for the cleantech sector, providing a balancing force to the intermittency of many renewable energies. Some say we are nearly there and that utility scale energy storage will be having its coming out party this year.

http://gamegoldreview.com
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LarryLarry

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2010 :  17:05:11  Show Profile
Most batteries really hate to be truely 100% empty. If you have a BMS that cuts off the current when the batteries get too low - and you can show them that they are so drained that the BMS won't let them be used - would that satisfy? Otherwise you limit yourself to batteries that tolerate being completely discharged which is very limiting.

Compressed air can store a huge amount of energy with low mass - but can be explosive = e.g. if you put 500 PSI into a 400 PSI bag.

Human byproducts from powering the vehicle - sweat and urine? could power some sorts of chemical batteries without a whole lot of weight.

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vxeo

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 12/31/2010 :  23:03:02  Show Profile
HI wow here is a lot of information and lot of knowledge!!!!!!!

http://jshoes.org/
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kswaby10

United Kingdom
1 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2011 :  01:05:32  Show Profile
También hay un calor preparado unidad de producción a bordo.

http://www.naseya.com/games/car-driving/
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alexsmth114

Germany
6 Posts

Posted - 03/04/2011 :  23:24:06  Show Profile
Thanks one and all for sharing some useful info!!..
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lizhuberx3

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2011 :  22:15:54  Show Profile
Good o see that people in this generation thinks for such things and care for it. Thanks for such informative link.

http://www.shiotsu-used-car.com/auction.html| http://www.shiotsu-autotrade.jp
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nicoleweems8935

Albania
1 Posts

Posted - 03/31/2011 :  04:26:47  Show Profile
There is a lot of good information on that website.


[url=”http://jshoes.org/”]J Shoes[/url]

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